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good evening, everyone. we begin tonight keeping them honest with the husband of presidential candidate michele bachmann speaking out about the counselling business they co-own. breaking his silence after months, mounting attention and allegations that clinic engages in so-called reparative therapy. the bachmanns own two clinics offering christian-based marriage counselling and including reparative therapy based on the theory that gay people can be turned into heterosexual through a combination of prayer and willpower.

nearly all mainstream medical and psychological associations say there's no evidence that it works and there's plenty of evidence in fact that it can be hurtful and harmful. for days now, both congresswoman bachmann and her husband have refused to answer questions about it. in today's issue of the bachmann's hometown paper, the minneapolis star tribune, mr. bachmann defends the clinics. the paper reporting he did not deny he and other counselors have attempted to help gay patients become heterosexual, but he said it is not a special interest of the business and only occurred at client's requests. will i address it he was quoted as saying he told the paper, certainly we'll talk about it. adding "is ate remedy form that i typically would use? it is at the client's discretion". in a news interview five years ago, mr. bachmann flat out denied his practice specialized in reparative therapy. back then according to the paper responding to such allegations he told city pages kwgs kwgs that's a false statement". he would say "if someone is interested in talking tonight about their homosexuality we're opening to talking about that. if someone comes in a homosexual and wants to stay a homosexual i

don't have a problem of that. he says reparative therapy is not a focus at bachmann and association. but according to an undercover video by truth wins out, in the lobby of the bachmann's clinics they of this book written by a woman named janet boynes who says to have could herself of her sexual orientation. in a placard behind it it says "she speaks to the heart of the matter and gives practical insights of truth to set people free". here's one of several hidden camera video in which a man had a conversation with one of the counselors. >> what would you suggest to me like a treatment plan type of thing? >> definitely pray. >> you can actually leave homosexuality and become heterosexual? >> oh, yeah, definitely. i believe all about that.

and if has happened. it really has. >> well, a counselor at bachmann and associates suggesting he pray the gay way, suggesting it's worked before. we interviewed a man named andrew ramirez also who says he encountered similar suggestions back in 2004 as a client at the clinic. he spoke recently about is with cnn's jim acosta. >> it was therapy that would help me change from homosexual to straight. >> that's how he described it? >> yes. >> he basically said if you do this what? you wouldn't be gay anymore? >> if i did this and worked his therapy program, god could perform a miracle and i could no longer be gay. >> ramirez said he was asigned a therapy program consisting of prayer and reading bible passages. he also says he was told he would be men toward by an ex-lesbian minister. if none of that worked, ramirez says, the counselor had another idea. >> he suggested to you what?

>> not acting out on my same-sex attractions and living a life of celibacy. >> that was an alternative to being gay? >> right. >> that was in 2004. in 2006 mr. bachmann denied his practice specialized in such therapy. today he says it's only done at the client's request. congresswoman bachmann continues to remain silent on the issue of the clinics which she coe owns. over the years she's had plenty to say about her opposition to and dislike of homosexuality. >> this is an earthquake issue. this will change our state forever. because the immediate consequence if gay marriage goes through is that k-12 little children will be forced to learn that homosexuality is normal and natural and that perhaps they should try it. if you're involved in the gay and lesbian lifestyle, it's bondage. it is personal bondage, personal despair and personal enslavement. this is not funny. it's a very sad life. it's part of satan, i think, to say that this is gay. it's anything but gay.

it's profoundly sad to recognize that almost all, if not all, individuals who have gone into the lifestyle have been abused at one time in their life, either by a male or by a female". >> she didn't provide any evidence of that. michele bachmann over the years. marcus bachmann has also weighed in on a christian radio show. that's caused some controversy. his words stirred up a storm because they suggested he was likening gay teenages to barbarians. but he now tells the star tribune his remarks have been taken out of context. in fact he says the recording was actually doctored. the recording shows no technical signs of editing and a host of the radio program agrees. here's the clip as it ran. >> there's that curiosity. but again, we -- like -- it is as if we have to understand barbarians need to be educated. they need to be disciplined. and just because someone feels it or thinks it doesn't mean we're supposed to go down that road.

>> now, mr. bachmann is saying now he was comparing kids to barbarians. the radio host agrees. here's a fuller version of the clip. and you can decide for yourself. >> welcome back to point of view. dr. marcus bachmann is my guest, and the time is going way too fast. i have so many questions for you, dr. bachmann. and this one, since you also pay attention to the culture wars, this has been swirling around lately because of this particular letter that came down from the american college of pediatricians cautioning schools to stop promoting homosexual identity to children. and yesterday the "wall street journal" came out with an article. what do you say when your teenager says she's gay? what do you say to christian parents who come up with this? >> well, i think you clearly say what is the understanding of god's word on homosexuality. and i think that this is no mystery that a child or preadolescent, particularly adolescent, will question and

wonder about sexuality. that's nothing new under the sun since the beginning of time. >> yeah. >> but i don't think we should take that -- because we wonder or we think or we question, does that take us down the road of homosexuality? >> could you add the word experiment to that? >> well, certainly. there's that curiosity. but again, we -- it is as if we have to understand, barbarians need to be educated. they need to be disciplined. and just because someone feels it or thinks it doesn't mean that we're supposed to go down that road. >> you can decide for yourself what mr. bachmann meant by that statement. jim acosta did the initial reporting on the story. he joins us now. jim marcus bachmann said today that converting gay patients is not a special interest of his clinic, it would only be attempted at the client's request.

on that truth wins out video it does seem like the guy who made the undercover tape said to the counselor he was interested in changing his orientation which got the conversation going. the family of the young man who you spoke to who went there in 2004, what did he say about that? >> well, anderson, that young man we interviewed for our story earlier this week, andrew ramirez, said he and his mother turned to bachmann and associates for counselling after being referred to the clinic by a friend. ramirez says they were told bachmann was a place to turn for teenagers who wanted to change from gay to straight. and you mentioned that photo taken by gay rights activist who went into the bachmann clinic undercover. it is a picture of that book you said written by a self-described ex-lesbian named janet boynes. in her book she claims she was able to use her faith to change her sexual orientation to straight. and above that book is an endorsement from marcus bachmann. not to mention that interview you just played from the radio, the host asked dr. bachmann what parents should do if their teenagers believe they're gay. >> and jim, bachmann also didn't deny that this kind of therapy

is going on in his clinic, but it's not in any way accepted therapy by any mainstream medical organization or psychological organization. >> that's right. anderson, a therapy aimed at changing a person's sexual orientation is frowned upon by mental health experts. bachmann says he's not seeking clients who want this kind of therapy, but the guidelines from the american psychological association are pretty clear as to what counselors should do when a patient with this issue comes for help. here's a statement from that group. it's pretty clear. it says "there is insufficient evidence to support the use of psychological interventions to change sexual orientation" and the group anderson said that that kind of therapy, reparative therapy can do harm to patients. >> michele bachmann is still kind of remaining silent on this whole thing, right? >> the campaign is not saying much. a spokesperson sent out a statement to me this evening saying "mr. bachmann has spoken. the bachmann for president campaign is focused on the issues that people are concerned about, jobs, the economy".

and no more on the subject for now, anderson. i tried to ask michelle bachman on this on wednesday and there was no response. >> congresswoman bachmann is riding high in the polls especially in iowa where christian conservatives frequently dominate republican caucuses. i talked about the impact the story may have or probably won't have there nation-wide with democratic strategist paul begala and ari fleischer. we spoke earlier. >> paul, let me start with you. do you believe the bachmann -- mr. bachmann's explanation that this isn't the focus of his clinic though he doesn't deny that he and his counselors would try reparative therapy and have tried it? do you buy that -- his explanation? because in the investigation that was done by that group with the hidden camera, i mean, in his lobby they are selling a book by somebody who claims to

be ex-gay talking about getting out of being gay. >> well, his position seems to be, i will practice a crack pot theory if people ask me to practice a crack pot theory. what if somebody comes in and says, will you try santeria or voodoo or astrology or any other number of crack put theories? would he adopt them. the notion first of all they call it reparative like your sexual identity is like a muffler or something. you got to take it in the shop and repair it. it's a crack pot theory and bigotry. having said that, i do think democrats in the left have to be careful here. because he's not the candidate. i never like going after people's spouses. i really don't. she owns a piece of the clinic.

it's legitimate. i'm more interested in that piece of it asking mrs. bachmann, the congresswoman, the candidate about this. because i don't think that michelle obama or cindy mccain or theresa heinz kerry, there's a long history lately of spouses being mistreated in these campaigns. i don't want marcus bachmann to be mistreated but i want michele bachmann to tell us does she believe it this crack pot, bigoted theory? >> ari, on this program we did this a couple days ago. this is a story mainly because michele bachmann was refusing to answer questions about it when asked point blank and because seemly mr. bachmann's statements -- and she's a co-owner of this clinic and mr. bachmann's statements didn't seem to be squaring up with what his former patients were telling us. >> well, anderson, if somebody came up to me and said they were gay and they wanted to have advice on how not to be gay i would say why on earth would you ask that? you should be proud of who you are, end of story. but if somebody goes to a christian counselling clinic and says, i need help. i don't want to be gay. i want to be something else. that really is between the person who goes to that clinic, a christian clinic, and whoever the practitioners are on the other end. in this case a christian advisor. so i think you do have to be careful here. it's almost as if somebody of a

faith goes to their priest and asks for advice about their own practices. for those of us who aren't belong to that, it's a little hard to weigh in. and i think when it comes to spouses especially, it's not the candidate. and they don't should not get treated by the same rules that apply to candidates. >> but mrs. bachman should answer the question. do you believe it this crack pot, bigoted theory that there's somehow something to be repaired if you're gay? i can't even say it without laughing because it's such a crack pot theory. congresswoman bachmann apparently participates in the profits of this clinic. in fact the clinic apparently gets state and federal assistance, which is kind of interesting for an anti-government conservative. she should have to answer whether she supports that kind of bigotry. >> well, first of all gets made cade. so when paul makes that case i guess what he is saying only democrats should be able to receive medicaid funds, no republicans, which is nonsense. but secondly, i think when it comes to these very sensitive and social issues, we have to be careful before we put ourselves in other people's shoes. i don't think it's out of the norm for somebody to say, i want

to change who i am. and if they do, i told you what my answer would be. i would say, you don't need to. why should you? but if somebody wanted, to and that's what the case here was, who among us has the right to say to them, if that's what you really want, you're not eligible to have it from anybody of any way if that's what you want. i don't think any of us have metaphysical certainty about these issues. what we should have is respect. and i think you have to leave this on the side. leave it alone, especially when there are so many other issues dealing with jobs and the deficit. that's what this election is about. >> well, but then you're no longer practicing therapy. you're no longer practicing psychological counselling. you may be practicing a religion. you may be practicing some sort of prejudice. you may be practicing something. but you should not be getting

medicaid funding to practice healthcare, mental healthcare in this case, if what you're doing is pursuing this crack pot theory. >> this is christian counselling program. and paul, what you'd be saying is no counselling program of any religious nature should be able to receive federal funds. >> they should not -- >> if that's the case you want to make, that's a big different case to make. but this is a christian facility. and they take medicaid patients. not necessarily for this procedure or treatment or whatever you call it. >> there's no evidence they were using medicaid payments for reparative therapy. >> she should be asked about this theory. she's a candidate for president. one out of ten americans is gay. she should be asked if she wants to lead a country where at least 10% of us are gay or lesbian, does she believe in this crack pot, bigoted theory that somehow there's something to be repaired in our brothers and sisters and sons and daughters who happen to be born gay? >> we'll have more with paul and ari after the break. we'll talk about the debt showdown. polls numbers the president used in support of his policies. frachkly the president's numbers simply don't add up. we'll show you that. let us know what you think. we're on facebook. follow me on twitter @ anderson

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no white house meeting today on the debt crisis. just each side demanding the other side get serious. >> i'm glad that congressional leaders don't want to default. but i think the american people expect more than that. they expect that we actually try to solve this problem, we get our fiscal house in order. >> time and again republicans have offered serious proposals to cut spending and address these issues. and i think it's time for the democrats to get serious as well.

>> president obama repeated his call for a so-called grand bargain on spending and revenue. speaker boehner maintained that no deal with tax increases can get through the house. he and other leading republicans claim the americans support them on this. listen. >> right now this economy is ailing. and we don't believe, nor do i think the american people believe, that raising taxes is the answer. >> the american people understand that tax hikes destroy jobs. >> i think what the american people appreciate is that you don't reinvigorate the economy by raising taxes. >> 80% of the american people do not want to see taxes raised. >> the president's answer? let's raise taxes on job creators. mr. president, the american people don't want that. >> the american people don't want us to raise taxes. >> well, last night we showed you numbers from gallup and others demonstrator that that's not truchlt most americans will in fact support certain tax increases to lower the debt. 20% in a recent gallup poll favors spending cuts only. president obama mentioned that

poll today. keeping him honest his numbers didn't quite add up. here's what he said. listen. >> you have 80% of the american people who support a balanced approach. 80% of the american people support an approach that includes revenues and includes cuts. so the notion that somehow the american people aren't sold is not the problem. >> well, in fact a large majority does support a mix, but not 80% as the president said. here's the poll again. it does show only 20% support for spending cuts only, but add up the numbers for some kind of mix of cuts and taxes and you get 69%, not the 80% the president said. a 11 point difference. the president also said that 65% of republicans support that grand bargain he reportedly struck with speaker boehner before the speaker backed away from it.

the poll doesn't ask specifically about the deal, only about a mix of tax and spending cuts. i talked with paul begala and ari fleischer. >> paul, both sides are trying to get in front of this. at this point does it look like the white house is making a dent in this battle? from your perspective how do you see it? >> certainly from the polling -- and i'm sorry to be so political but i'm a political hack. that's why i'm on. the president, there's a quinnipiac poll that says the president has a 14 point advantage right now over the republicans on this. i think it's impressive. because he's shown the most political courage. he has put medicare cuts on the table. 78% of americans oppose cuts in medicare. but he's put that on the table. he's apparently put social security on the table. the republicans won't even put low-hanging fruit like tax breaks for oil companies and for corporate jets on the table. so i think the american people are being fair. they're saying, look, if we have to take these cuts in programs we believe in, we should also ask wealthy americans to pay a little bit more, too. that's where the president is. i think he's definitely on the right side of this.

>> ari, in terms of how both sides have been playing this, how do you assess it? >> well, number one, if president obama has put medicare and social security on the table he's covered them with a table cloth. because nobody can see what he's talking about. and you notice at his news conference today he ducked a question about whether he'd be willing to raise the retirement age. so so far it's all fluff and rhetoric from the president and no specifics. in terms of how it's playing, the one big polling piece that we got this week was the president is now down by eight points in a generic poll to republican presidential nominee, whoever it would be. that's a huge gap for the president and a step in the wrong direction. so this frankly is the ultimate pox on all your houses issues. the public is very frustrated with everybody in washington who cannot come to an agreement on this. that's what ultimately is going to drive the end game here. an agreement has to be reached. it's just not american for us to not be able to pay our bills. that's what we expect as families and what we should expect the government to do. my bet is at the end they're going to pass some type of medium-term, 500 billion or so, six-month fix, all tied to spending cuts.

and barack obama has no choice but to sign that. >> paul, you agree with that, some sort of medium fix? >> i suppose that may be where it's going. i tend to be more pessimistic about this. you never go broke betting that republicans will be irresponsible and reckless. one democratic senator e-mailed me a couple days ago with a quote from lincoln's historic speech at cooper union in 1860 where he said he didn't like politicians whose strategy was in lincoln's word, rule or ruin. either they'll rule the country or they'll ruin the country. and that seems to be the republican strategy. either let us rule entirely, no compromise, or we will ruin the country by pushing us off this cliff on default, which is really -- i mean, for the party of lincoln to be practicing the politics of rule or ruin is really pretty tragic. >> anderson, what you have to remember, this is what the american people spoke out for in 2010. this is what elected such a tsunami of republicans to office. people were fed up with deficits, fed up with debt, fed up with spending, fed up with healthcare reform. they wanted america to move a

different direction from barack obama. that's what's now being tested. >> we got to leave it there. ari, thanks very much. paul begala as well. ahead tonight, former fugitive, reputed mobster whitey bulger why his reputation on the street made the toughest tough guys tremble. haunting videotapes made by the couple who kidnaped jaycee dugard, held her captive for 18 years. these videos show them stalking children on playgrounds, both at the same time. they even videotaped parole officer whose visited their home and failed over and over again to find jaycee dugard. every parent should see these tapes. we'll be right back. there's bugs, leaves, lint, crud. you'll be breathing that. i do believe it's part of a locust. make sure your alignments good. your brakes are good. you've got all sorts different things that you check off. your fluid levels. pretty much everything you could need. it gets done. it gets done quickly. and it gets done correctly. the works fuel saver package, just $29.95 or less after rebate. only at your ford dealer.

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deadly violence in syria

again today as anti-government demonstrators clashed with soldiers after friday prayers. activists say at least 21 civilians were killed along with one soldier. cnn is not able to independently verify this. video shows demonstrations in cities and towns across the country. syrian state tv once again blamed the violence on what it called arms ground and said soldiers were protecting people from those groups. the situation in egypt has received much less attention. hosni mubarek was swept from power. thousands turned out in tahrir square joining several camped out there since last week. they're vowing to stay there until their demands are taken by the council running the country. they want deep changes, deep economic and social reforms, speedy trials for my botheric and members of his form regime and severe punishment for police officers who killed protesters during the uprisings in january a february. this week the government tried to appease the protesters by

firing nearly 600 police officials. but are there limits to the tolerance of the ruling council? we've seen that in the last few waeks that's allowing the but are there limits to the tolerance of the ruling council? we've seen that in the last few waeks that's allowing the protest but said it won't permit disturbance to the public order. i spoke with a teacher at stanford's university and a protestor. >> khalid,what do the protestors want at this point? >> the fact is we're in an ongoing struggle. that's something that's been very clear since mubarek left power. we've seen multiple attempts by the protestors to get what they want, and we've seen multiple attempts by the army, specifically, to push them back. and the protestors want to build their country. and they're fed up with -- they're fed up with the speed of

change. they're fed up with the army, which has tortured people, which has put people on military trial, which has threatened the press, which has threatened freedoms. and what we've seen here starting last week on the 8th of july is the first absolutely clear consensus that the way things seem to be going, the way that the army seems to be leading things, is something that they don't accept. and so what we've got going on right now is a very clear message being sent to the army, things have to change. and i would say what characterizes this sit in as opposed to where we were at the beginning is this is actually a much more difficult sit. in at the beginning it was easier. at the beginning was we need to break something with the past. this is very much about making very clear what the future is we want to build. >> you're saying it's more difficult now. but i mean back then people were being killed in the streets by pro mubarek forces. you still say this is more difficult just because it's more complex? what you're trying to achieve?

>> yeah. what i mean to say is politically it's a lot more complicated. you can unify a large number of people over the fact that you want to get rid of a dictator. unifying them over what and how you want to build your country is much more difficult. because building is much more difficult than breaking with the past. but that's not to say, of course, i mean of course the difficulty of what we had in the first sit in was the violence which was incredibly clear. but i mean, since then we've had -- as i say we've had violence, we've had torture, we've had people killed at the hand of the army, we've been threatened. so now it's about learning how -- finding out how to build the country that we want. >> faroud, you have always been very optimistic about the so-called arab spring. are you disappointed by the rate of progress, by the pace of progress in egypt since mubarek was toppled? >> absolutely not, anderson. i think in fact if we take a

look at what has been happening in egypt, it's remarkable. we have to remember that even though this egyptian revolt that you witnessed first hand was largely peaceful, 850 egyptians were killed at the hand of the security forces. not the army. that's a very important distinction. so the families of those 850 want justice. and it's in the nature of revolutions that they always want to go back to their moment and their place of innocence. and the place and the moment of innocence were these magical 18 days in liberation square where the egyptians claimed their history and drove pharoah out of power. and now there's an account, if you will, between the army which backed the people and didn't kill them as a civilian army is killing its own people, and the population which wants speedier change, faster change. one protestor says he wanted freedom, social justice, and

bread. now, these are very, very big demands. and i think that's what we're really looking at in egypt today. >> khalid, the elections have now been pushed back in egypt. they were supposed to be in september. now they've been pushed back to october-november. they were already had been scheduled earlier than many people had wanted, other than the moslem brotherhood, other groups that wanted to be able to establish themselves. do you think it's a good thing that elections have been pushed back? >> i mean, the elections will come when they will come. and i think when we're talking about the pace of change, i think the pace of change will be -- i mean, it will be what it will be. i mean, at the end of the day, one month, two months doesn't really make that big a difference. the issue is really the lack of transparentity that we've had by the military who are essentially ruling the country. the fact that we don't know when we have our elections, there are all sorts of elements about how those elections are held that have not been made clear to us. i think those are the issues

that are extremely worrying about these upcoming elections. >> and faoud,what about the role of the moslem brotherhood? there were some fractures in the organization. the youth part of it i think broke off, created their own organization. are they the biggest power now besides the military in egypt? >> well, i think that of course they're a big power. and if you watch what happened with the moslem brotherhood, they stayed out of these protests of friday. they basically said, we won't participate. we want to give the government time. so they're trying to sound reasonable, trying to sound responsible. but the problem for the protestors right now is that there is a prime minister in place who was brought to power by the protesters. and now the protesters want him to do all kinds of things very, very quickly, very rapidly. it's not easy getting rid of the heritage of authoritarianism. >> and khalid, i remember talking to you in those heady

days when you were sleeping in tahrir square for days at a time. are you still that optimistic? are you still that excited? >> oh, absolutely. i mean, what happened here at the beginning of the revolution has changed how people view their future, has changed how people view their country. and what we're seeing, and what you're seeing behind me, is the fact that they will not rest until they achieve what they want to achieve. >> i appreciate both of you coming out. >> thank you. still ahead tonight, crime and punishment. haunting videotapes just released by prosecutors revealing new details by the monsters charged with and convicted of holding jaycee dugard captive for 18 years. also, casey anthony just hours away from freedom. she'll be released from a florida jail sunday. she won her case, so why are her attorneys now appealing the verdict? we'll explain ahead. but i did. they said i couldn't fight above my weight class. but i did. they said i couldn't get elected to congress. but i did. ♪ sometimes when we touch

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crime and punishment tonight, this week we heard for the first time jaycee dugard describe her own 18 year captivity by phillip and nancy garrido. haunting videotapes released by prosecutors showing how the garridos stalked children in playground, nancy pretending to film her husband singing while focusing on kids in the background. also caught on tape, a visit from law enforcement, dozens of examples of parole officers missing an opportunity to find jaycee. >> those two girls are going to come out of that sliding door. >> on what side of me? >> on your left. >> the videos are unsteady and sometimes out of focus. but the intent is clear. >> see them? >> yes. do you think anybody can see me? >> no. >> when you make it look like you're pointing at me you need it move more in front of me.

>> the videos show convicted sex offender phillip garrido and his wife nancy apparently on the prowl in parking lots and in playgrounds surrounded by children. >> got me real good? >> yes. i can see you really good. >> their team strategy caught on camera gives an erie glimpse on how the duo worked together to on serve children and ultimately kidnap 11-year-old jaycee dugard as she walked to the bus stop near her lake tahoe home on june 10, 1991 in an interview with abc's diane sawyer, dugard recounts garrido's giddiness over her capture. >> did they say anything? did you hear anything? >> no, not at first. after we were driving for awhile i heard the driver say "i can't believe we got away with it" and he started laughing. i think i blacked out again or something. it was like the most horrible moment of your life times ten. >> that horrible moment

continued for the next 18 years. held captive in the garrido's backyard, dugard was repeatedly raped and gave birth to two children. all the while, phillip garrido was on federal and state patrol. . why is this door blocked? this door right here? >> that's where we sleep. >> want to turn the light on? >> sure. >> in another video which was taped by nancy garrido, a state patrol officer searches the home. >> what does a parole agent do for his parolee? >> if you stay in this front room and i don't have to place you in restraints, because right now i'm searching the house. >> the search of the home appears to be brief and the officer never goes into the backyard where he could have discovered dugard some 30 feet away. >> i don't believe it, either. >> i don't understand. i'm doing everything i'm supposed to do. >> i know it zpchlt. >> you're on parole. >> parole officers visited garrido 60 times at his home. 60 times. not once did they notice what was happening in the backyard. in her interview with abc,

dugard recounts the one time she came face-to-face with a parole officer but was too afraid to tell him the truth. >> i actually talked to one of the agents. and the agent proceeded to give phillip his urine test and left. this made me feel like he didn't really care. >> luckily, jaycee dugard was finally discovered in august 2009, 19 years after being abducted. the garridos convicted of kidnapping and rape are now in prison for life. from the videos it's clear law officials failed to do their job. that's the main reason they say the videos were released by the district attorney's office with dugard's consent in the "hopes of improving the supervision and detection of sexual predators". so creepy. earlier i talked about the tapes and what can be learned from them with dr. drew pinsky and sunny hostin a form federal prosecutor. >> dr. drew, i watched these tapes multiple times today. they are just so disturbing. and the degree to which this

guy's wife was aiding and abetting him and was part of this, it boggles the mind. >> it boggles the mind now knowing what we know about this guy and the depravity to which he has sunk. the fact is, the reason this guy chose this woman is because of her profound dependency needs. and he on some level, psychologically, intuitively or otherwise, knew that he could get her to cooperate with really anything he wanted to do. his games of mind control are intense, and he found a willing victim here in this woman who needed to be loved by him more than anything else in her life. >> sunny, this is a registered sex offender videotaping kids in a playground. it's a parent's worst nightmare. is there anything one can do to protect kids at a playground like this? >> well, no. i mean, in a public playground certainly people can take pictures. there have been states that have tried to pass laws to prevent that.

and those efforts have failed. but i will say. this i think the problem here was in the federal supervision and the state supervision. he was a registered sex offender. and if people do their jobs and parole agents do their jobs, probation agents do their jobs, when they go and they search people's homes, these sex offender homes, they find evidence like this. they find the videotapes. they find the child pornography. they find the photographs. and so i think in this case the system really, really failed. and that's really the tragedy here. >> and for parents watching tonight, dr. drew, who might be worried some pedophile could be lurking around their kid's playgrounds. i guess you would look for somebody with a video camera. >> welk it's not as simple as that.

it's even frankly -- i don't want to make people paranoid, but assume -- assume the worst. i mean, if these stories lately have not taught is anything, it is that depravity exists in our world, and sometimes it comes out of nowhere. there's not as though they wear a sign or a sandwich board that lets you know. there's nothing absolutely characteristic about them physically or their behavior, that you need to have eyes on kids at all times. and we just live in a world where these things exist, and they're much more common than we'd like to admit. we've been through a period of of maybe 20 or 30 years where people debated how pervasive these problems are. now it's apparent. now it's obvious. it exists and we have to be vigilant. >> also just the amount of thought that went into buying this video camera. he's talking to his wife about the video camera and sort of instructing her how to use it. his whole plan of sitting there singing while she's seek letly videotaping what's happening around him. i just find this videotape so, so disturbing. >> anderson, it's spooky and it's disgusting. and again you've got to remember something. this is just not the average perpetrator. this is not somebody who -- one message i have to people that have these sorts of impulses is please get help before you hurt yourself or somebody else.

there are things that can be done. but this is more than that. this is depravity. this is a depraved person. >> the fact that there is video, where you actually see the parole officer in the house and with the knowledge of what was happening in the very backyard, it's just -- it's stunning to actually see zblit it really is stunning. and what i thought was really fascinating is that it was nancy garrido that was taking the video. and she was very combative with the parole agent. he got out of there very quickly. and he never went into the backyard. so this is i think going to be a tool for prosecutors and for investigators and parole agents and probation officers to really look at and figure out how these predators work. all the possibilities that they need to look into when supervising these sexual predators. >> the sex offenders i've interviewed are really the most ma nip la tiff people i've ever met. some of them were grooming

children and families to try to molest them. some of them were people who had grabbed kids. >> it's not a passing fan sichlt it's not a hobby. it is a profound, intense drive and attractions. and in those situations where you can treat, it takes a lot of work and really on a daily basis. in those situations where again as i've said now several times where it's actually becomes depraved it is our legal system that must step in and protect our children. >> dr. drew appreciate it. sunny hostin as well a new look at james whitey bulger gangster turned fugitive. we'll hear from a former drug runner who says bulger used to make even the toughest guys shake. big deal days are back and better than ever! right now, go to priceline for a sneak peek at recent winning hotel bids to find where you n save up to 60% on hotels. * we'll even email you other people's winning bids, so you'll know what price to name. *á with new hotel bid alerts, from priceline. this past year alone there was a 93% increase in cyber attacks. in financial transactions... on devices... in social interactions...

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tonight a look at what james whitey bulger was really like doctors his alleged reign as one of chicago's biggest mobsters. back in the day he was known as the guy who controlled everything in south boston. we spoke with a former drug runner when knew him. >> i met whitey when i was between the ages of 15 and 16. >> john shay, nicknamed red, grew up in the tight-knit world of south above the up's old colony housing projects. shay, a golden glove boxer with a wild streak, wanted to be just like reputed crime boss whitey bulger and the irish gangsters who ran southy. >> over there is our colony projects. over here is the harbor projects where whitey grew up. and santa monica church. next to santa monica church around the rotary is the liquor store and the video store where was his base of operations. the guy was legendary. >> shay says bulger was the undisputed king of southy.

>> he wanted to be as strong and as powerful and as rich as he could be. >> whitey was the toughest of them all. >> are you kidding? he made tough guys shake. he made them shake! >> raised by a single mom, shay looked up to bulger as a father figure and mentor. shay's boxing skills came in handy. he says he worked for bulger first as an enforcer, shaking down debtors. then in a bizarre initiation, bulger took shay to a basement and pulled a gun. >> it was called a test. and that's when i had become the boss after that. >> and that put you in charge of the drugs? >> that put me in charge of the drugs. >> in 1990, shea was convicted of cocaine trafficking. he served 12 years, refusing to cooperate in exchange for a shorter sentence. >> they wanted whitey through me. and i wouldn't give him up. they could have threatened me with the electric chair and i wouldn't have gave him up. ever. >> because in southy, it was

okay to be a criminal but not a rat. and when shea in prison found out bulger was a fbi informant? >> it was almost like someone reached through the phone line down my throat and tore my heart out. so that's what it is for me. because i honored the code. >> and they played you. >> and they played me. because whitey knew. >> as bulger went on the run, his betrayal out in the open, his 20 yooe reign as boston's most notorious mob boss came to an end. >> i would have died for that guy. i would have died for him. >> with two books to his credit, shea says he's taken responsibility for his early life and is now a changed man. as for the former king of southy? shea believes he's still calling the shots. >> he is playing them. is he giving them information? is he talking to them? you guarantee he is. he started the minute they captured him. but psychologically, he's playing them.

guaranteed. >> debra thayrick, cnn, boston. coming up how this week's cnn hero turned her own backyard garden to be seeds of hope for thousands of families next. [ barks ] ♪ [ cat meows ] ♪ [ whistles ] ♪ [ cat meows ] ♪ [ ting! ] [ male announcer ] travelers can help you protect the things you care about and save money with multi-policy discounts. are you getting the coverage you need and the discounts you deserve? for an agent or quote, call 800-my-coverage or visit travelers.com. ♪

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and we got onesies! sometimes miracles get messy. so we use tide free. no perfumes or dyes for her delicate skin. brad. not it. not it. just kidding. that's our tide. what's yours? i grew up wearing lots of hand-me-downs. bell bottoms in the '80s? not pretty. then she found them. she loved them, so i washed them in tide with downy and they're still soft and fresh. right? i'm blogging. really. i'm talking. that's my tide. what's yours? tonight's cnn hero is a woman family got hit hard by the recession. she decided to feed her family she'd have to count on her own backyard, her garden. now she's helping families do

the same. here's her story. >> i love the united states. i think it's a wonderful place to live. it's scary to me that with so much land, with so much abundance people are hungry. in 2008 my husband lost his job. it was a very, very difficult difficult time. and the first thing we did was plant a garden. if you grow your own food you never have to worry about how you're going to feed your family. we thought if we could help others garden, then we could help them pull themselves up out of poverty. i'm holly hirshberg. we fight hunger in the united states by teaching people it grow their own food. we pack enough seeds to feed a family of four. we want to help people provide for themselves. >> this is an egg plant. i've already harvested from it. >> my garden is in front of my apartment. i can grow tomatoes, bell pepper, in just flower pots. if it wasn't for my garden then i wouldn't be able to afford fresh produce at all. >> here we have a tomatillo plant. all from seeds from the dinner garden. we have provided over 65,000 seed packs to individuals and families all over the country.